Bishop Grayson to lead offshoot of Church Of God In Christ – COGIC
The Church of God in Christ (COGIC) splits based on the ordination of women in ministry. A new branch from the COGIC will encourage women to take more vital roles in ministry.
David Grayson, a Church of God in Christ pastor for 35 years, will be consecrated in a ceremony Sunday and elevated to the office of presiding bishop and chief apostle of a new denomination, the Church of God in Christ (New Day).
The group includes about 2,000 members from 40 COGIC congregations, primarily in Memphis. Churches in Alabama, Mississippi and New York also plan to affiliate with the new group.
“We will maintain the same basic beliefs as COGIC, but we are not a part of COGIC,” said Grayson, 61. “The only difference is that we will welcome the ordination of women.”
Memphis is headquarters to COGIC, which has more than 5 million members worldwide. It does not allow women to serve as pastors or bishops.
Presiding Bishop G. E. Patterson couldn’t be reached for comment, but during an interview last November he indicated that the issue of ordaining women would likely surface this year.
[ "Full Story @ The Commerical Appeal (Bishop Grayson to lead offshoot of Church Of God In Christ - COGIC)":http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/local_news/article/0,1426,MCA_437_2587022,00.html ]
Source: The Commercial Appeal (c) 2004 – The Commercial Appeal, an E.W. Scripps Company newspaper.
Filed under: Church of God in Christ, Ministries
I am more than proud that Bishop Grayson is one out of a million Apostles that finally realize that God has given women an annointing as well as men. As far as C.O.G.I.C. they need to realize that we are in a new time, it is 2004 not 1965, and God has given everyone that is in connection with him a word and a testimony, for you must have a personal relationship with God and experience a spirtural awakening and be born again so God can use you, for we are here for someone else, and that is very important. I wish Bishop Grayson the best, for being under his teaching for years, I learned alot and if you have the honor of being under his teaching as well, then you are special. God Bless you Bishop Grayson and my prayers are with you always.
Donna Hodge
I guess some of us think God is not in control. Whatever church God has instituted during these last days will always be under His control and not man.
Are we not under the lordship of Jesus Christ? People will always find things to split over, ordination of women, speaking in tongues, etc., but this one thing I do know, God is not the author of confusion. No matter what church denomination you find yourself in, when Jesus comes, that is not going to matter, the only questions is, are you in Christ? are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?
The agenda should be about souls, and not appeasing certain groups for the sake of membership and fame and financial gain. What God promised Bishop Mason will stand until Jesus come, just like He promised Abraham, for God’s word shall stand. Who can fight against it and live?
I knew it would only be a matter of time that the enemy would move more rapidly in the churches. I love COGIC and I am a license Missionary in the church. I haven’t found any where in the Bible that speaks on Women Pastors, Elders or Bishops. We need to concentrate on being Holy and bringing back Holiness to the church. It’s time out for letting society take over our churches. The Bible is being fullfilled everyday and we are fighting over trying to be something wer’e not. I think the problem is being obedient to those appointed over us, and churches who are trying to get rich by over looking everything that stands for Holiness. In closing I’ll just say I’m standing for truth not what looks or sounds good. I love the Lord and I know He is using me as one of his servants. I love Bishop Patterson and I love the COGIC.
I greatly believe in the ordination of women no matter what the denomination, be it Baptist, COGIC, AME, Non-Denominational, or what. The purpose for leaders in the church is not only to lead the flock of God but to recognize and cultivate the call of God on those that they lead in order to be more effective in reaching souls. This is not predicated upon whether you are a man or woman, it should souly be about who is sold out enough to be used. And while there is no reference that woman should be ordained there is yet no reference that they should not be either. So it becomes a matter of maturity and being able to handle what God is doing in the lives of women.
This truly saddens me. If the Bible is the Infallible word of God, and the Bible speaks against women pastors and deacons, then obviously it is not right. You cannot change the Holy Word of God just to make people happy. Changing the Word is a dangerous thing. Anyone that ordains a woman is not following the form God gave us. Just stay with the Word.
Jeremiah 6:16 Seek for the old paths and walk therein , and you shall find rest for your souls. Then they said we will not walk therein. Let God’s word be true and every man a liar. Sin is sin no matter who it is in. If we add to or take away from this Holy writ we are in danger of sinning. God Bless Bisop Patteron, Board of Bishop, Mother , Elders, Minister, Missionary and all of my sister and brothers. I can wait to see each of you in the 2004 Convocation of COGIC in Memphis.
In regards to what Im hearing and reading concerning the New Day Churchs court battle initiated by Bishop G. E. Patterson who signed the restraining order:
Bishop Grayson did not want a fight. Bishop Grayson did not ask for all of this publicity, nor did he ask to go to court to defend himself for a name that is not copywritten, trademarked, or even used first by the COGIC church founded by Bishop C. H. Mason. All Bishop Grayson wanted was a jurisdiction in Tennessee. As so well stated by Pastor P, he met all the criteria as requested by the General Assembly. Three members of the General Board came to inspect the fellowship of 34 churches (4 more than required), they came, they saw, they spoke, and they went back To the dismay of Bishop Grayson, Bishop Patterson, a man who Bishop Grayson considered his leader and his friend, because of how frequently they conversed and fellowshipped as couples in the local restaurants in the Memphis area, nor the 3 committee members sent, had the nerve to tell him he was turned down for jurisdictional status. He was informally told that unbelievably he was turned down. Bishop Grayson is not a novice, he was consecrated Bishop 17 years ago, a year before Bishop Patterson became a Bishop and a year before he returned to COGIC after leaving and remaining out of COGIC for 13 years. Bishop Grayson didnt cause a scene as COGIC members know we can do; but, he did not stand still, he pulled out to form an organization that stands for what is right. Bishop Grayson was shocked to hear after his elevation to the office of Presiding Bishop of his new denomination, that Bishop Reed (then 91 yrs old & a Bishop in COGIC for 57 years), a member of Bishop Pattersons local congregation returned to church after taking part in that service, by the laying on of hands, was hurt to hear Bishop Patterson during his early morning Sunday service in front of hundreds of people publically landblast Bishop Graysons ceremony. Apparently word had gotten back to Bishop Patterson that Bishop Reed had stated he was 200% for his son, Bishop Grayson; Bishop Patterson according to many who sat in the congregation, said, Anyone who is 200% for my enemy, is not allowed to sit on the platform with me. How does your friend become your enemy because he makes a decision not to fight your decision, but to move forward in ministry? Why didnt Bishop Grayson receive jurisdictional status? Could it have been because one of the Bishops in the Memphis area stated to Bishop Grayson that another jurisdiction was not needed? This Bishop seemed to have been speaking for more than himself. Or could it be politics? It seems like this being election year, it was politically expedient for Bishop Patterson to use the power and influence of his office against the formulation of a new jurisdiction in Tennessee in order to win the election. Meaning that if he made another jurisdiction it would mean he might lose the support of the other jurisdictional Bishops in Tennessee, and if he lost Tennessee, he might lose the election. Ive been a part of COGIC for 24 years. Think about it when the opinions of men take a dominant place, my brothers and my sisters, we need a NEW DAY.
Posted by: A Woman for Truth at August 19, 2004 07:02 PM
Praise God for choosing me as a Pastor, for it is not my doing it is God’s Divine appointment. It is my will to be obedient to His call to lead with integrity and the fear of God. I, too, want to want to join Bishop Grayson, in his effort to please the Lord and to make a difference in the women of today, who want to work in his ministry without dissemination.
God Bless you, BISHOP, for the move you’ve made.
Yours in Christ
Geraldine Gardner, Elect Lady Pastor
I have my membership within the C.O.G.I.C. also and I must first say that no matter what man feels, thinks, believes or teaches, there are two facts that will never change. They are that GOD is right and HIS Word is right!!! I stand with presiding Bishop Patterson but the following comments are my own and do not reflect on him personally. There is no biblical example supporting women being ordained in the capacity of church headship. In fact the Bible teaches that a woman should not usurp authoruty over men. Some use the words of the prophet Joel 2 to support women in ministry leadership because of the mention of “daughters” prohesying in the last days , however taking a closer look at the word used there it simply means sharing or “teaching” the message as did the women at the time of Jesus’ resurrection. The structure for order in God’s church is God, Christ’s Head, Christ the Head of man (all masculine assertions. The order of God does not negate women or the positional influence in the Church or the home but rather brings a uniformity and total harmony when we’re all in our rightful place submitted to God.
Be Blessed in Jesus’ Name!
There is NO scripture supporting the ordination of women. NOT ONE. And don’t even began to go to women as pastors, deacons, and bishops. I’d like to see the woman bishop or deacon who is the “husband of one wife who rules his house well” as the scripture says. If she is then she still can’t be a church official because of homosexualtiy and she shouldn’t be ruling her house. So against scripture. If you choose to be outside of the word then go ahead with your “New Day”, but you will be like those whom Jesus spoke of. Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” I stand with Bishop Patterson also on the name issue. If they want to leave the church and be someone else, then go be someone else. There name would still be COGIC New Day causing people to believe they were affiliated with the real church. It would be different if they were a group that decided on the name but they are leaving a group that already has that name so they should be something else. How about “We Ordain Women Church” or “New Interpretation Church” since that seems to be their basic problem.
I stand with my Bishop G E Patterson he is right in what he is doing to stop this so called new day cogic people from useing the name cogic. Why fight over a name any way if this so called Bishop Grayson feel he need to start a new movement let him seek the Lord. and if the name cogic was use before. God gave Bishop CH Mason the name to use. and said to him take this name and there never be a building large enough to hold the people to come hear you preach.Bishop CH Mason did not steal the name from off the Computer. No harm shall come to Bishop Patterson he is cover in the blood Jesus. and this about women preacher read the bible see what the word of God say. christ is the head of the church.and the man is the head of women.God did not call a women to pastor or be a bishop so new day saint read your bible.
i know the bible right and somebody wrong.to pastor gerri garder and donna hodge and womenfortruth and also pastor p. first the bible is right by it self. if you all is so againt the cogic and my great leader Bishop G E Patterson why don’t you all go to the baptist church. cogic is right on it stand on women. the bible said christ is the head of the church and the man is the head of the women. so what are you going to do about that the bible said. Paul said that a women not to be in leadership that God word and it is right .i don’t know Bishop Grayson he won’t to start movement go to baptist church and start a movement and leave us along. COGIC is the greast Church in world to me. and pastor p. if the name was use before Bishop CH Mason did no and God gave to him the name COGIC. you can fight all you won’t to no weapon no harm shall come to the saint of COGIC and our leader.
To Anthony:
What is preaching? My brother you need to reread your bible and study the history of the Scriptures that you are reading. Also there is no Scripture to support the fact that God did not call a women to preach. Read it carefully. That is not what the Bible said nor what Paul said or meant.
Humbly submitted.
Read and study brother.
well pastor louise goings i do no the bible is right there are scirptures to support that God did not call a women to be a pastor or bishop that bible facts yes the Lord use women to take his word to the world. she can not be the head of a church that bible facts or scriptures. for the bible say that christ is the head of the church and the man is the head of the women so if the man is the head of the women the bible say how can she pastor a church or be a bishop of a church. when the bible say if a man desires to be a bishop he not (she) must be the husband of one wife. e-mail me back at thewtlc@yahoo.com
Hi to all I would like to start by saying that I know Gods hand has beeen on me for a long time. Do I like it , Do I want it, NO!!!!!! Do I want to allow God to be Lord in and over my life, do I want His will to be done in and through my life, YES. So see I have been in a battle for a long time now. God is going to do what He is doing regardless of what people think He should do. God is no respector of persons. This is not to cause trouble, bitterness or strife. All I can attest to is how the Lord has been dealing with me whether I have fully accepted it or not. I can say that I am at a point in my life where I have thrown my hands up and said God I want you to be Lord in all areas of my life. Has it been easy, no so I do ask for those who will pray the Lords prayer with me over my life to please join in with me ,for me. Those that have anything esle to add please if it does not line up with the word of God please keep it to yourself. Thank you so very much in advance. I stand along with all the women that have felt the Lord beyond a shawdow of a doubt in the area of being called and or chosen to any area of the five fold ministry. Your True sister in Christ. May God contiue to bless you all richly in every area of your lives. Most of all May He continue to bless your spirit and your souls.
Continued,
Please forgive me for not making mention to the man of God that is clearly doing the will of the Lord. I would like to say thank you for allowing the Lord to use you to go ahead and perpare the path for lots of women that would not other wise stand a chance in the ministry to do what the Lord has ordained for them to do from before the beginning of time. I would also like to clear up for the ones who have said she needs to get somewhere and learn how to spell, with my proir e-mail Hah Hah!!!!!! BEEEN was spelled that way intentionally because it has felt like a lifetime. Be Blessed my prayers are with you Bishop Grayson. Stand strong and continue to trust in the Lord because it is about pleasing Him and not man ( mankind) that is.
vivian you said you would like to thank Bishop Grayson by doing the will of God by ordain women who would not other wise stand a chance in ministry. well first of all i thank God for Bishop G.E.Patterson and the real COGIC for standing on word of God which is right. we all no that God use women in ministry. but we no that God did not call a women to pastor or be a Bishop of a church. or be the head that bible sister. and Bishop Grayson is not doing the will of God by make women pastor or ordain a women to be the head of God people. that wrong in the eye og God and his word to. And Pastor louise going you said there is no scripture to support that God did not call a women to preach. but there are scripture in the bible that say women are not to pastor or be a bishop or the head of the man. and pastor gerri gardner how can you stand againt the bible man you no what the bible say about women in leadership so go over with bishop grayson the bible is still right by it self.
vivian you said you felt the hand of the Lord on you.his hand might have been on you but not to preach and yell like a man. so you women can not fight the word of God sister. when you get born again and be filled with the HolyGhost than you will get the understanding you need. all the women who are runing around here talking about God call them to pastor that wrong because God is not going againt his word.
Minister Mccline:
I see why you are just a minister. You dont know the word or how to rightly divide the word. Why dont you go and do some research before you insult the wonderful people that respond on this issue. First of all I hate to bust
your bubble; but Your presiding Bishop G.E Patterson has already ordained women as pastors. As Apostle G. E Patterson he has already ordained women. Hey COGIC, what about Pastor Maria Gardner Thomas; B.M. Oakley Memorial Temple, Church of God in Christ 1535 North 7th Street
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19122. The hypocrisy is killing me!
well pastor p. why you judge me because what i believe the bible say. that cold brother. and i do repent to you for the statement i said pastor p. you said the hypocrisy is killing you. well stop the hypocrisy than.
Dear Minister Mccline:
hy·poc·ri·sy (h-pkr-s) NOUN: pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
My brother not one time did I take you to the word and disprove what you are saying. You say that you and your organization do not believe in Women preachers. I only presented some facts that shows contrary to what you tell us your dogma is invalid. Its nothing personal, just the truth. One thing I will say about you, You are a true soldier. But the bible teaches about Zeal not according to knowledge. May Love and Peace of God rest, rule, and abide forever!
God bless all of you in the wonderful name of Jesus Christ.
When Bishop G.E. Patterson was not a part of C.O.G.I.C. he
ordained many women. He in fact believed in the ordination
of women. This is all about politics and nothing else. I know
for a fact that Bishop Patterson supports the ordination of
women to become pastors. The other P.B. has all the right
to use the term Church Of God In Christ(New Day). Count me
in. The old boys club has come to an end. I love Bishop Patterson
but he can not have it both ways. He is on record as supporting
the ordination of women. It is strange how politics has pushed
Bishop G.E. Patterson into a strange corner. I see why he will
not be running for P.B. again. God is calling women to be pastors
because they have a sensitive spirit that can draw people to Christ.
Only What You Do For Christ Will Last
Garden Of Love Holy Church Inc.
Pastor Joseph Luster
856 Isabella Street
Oakland Ca 94607
Dear Min. Mccline:
First, let me thank Pastor Luster for his confirmation. My dear brother Mccline I leave you with these words of God. Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. In court they have a rule called Hearsay. This preacher has testified or is an eye witness to the fact. His statements are not what he feels, but what he knows.
Pastor J. Luster you said God is calling women to be pastors that a lie.i can not see that. i do no the Lord use women to procliam his word we have great women preachers in this world. God has all ways use women even in the bible time.1 Timothy 2:11,12 say but i suffer not a women teach, nor to usurp authority over the man.i no some of you will say he meant something other than what it say.and if the other Bishop would like to use the cogic name ok. you are not save by that name. but the name of Jesus only.well it time to get soul saved for jesus so i will stop on the comment about people fighting over a name and court. Bishop GE Patterson have to stand before God himself and me and you.he is not the only saint that have went to court bishop owen went to court nobody said anything. because it is Bishop GE Patterson.
Bro McCline:
What is this? Thee ole “Diversion Tactic” Point the finger at Bishop Owens to
change the focus of the issue. I told you I was suspect of you. It seems that you are on here to provoke argument. Let it go my Brother!
pastor p the devil is a lie. am not trying to a provoke argument with any one here sir that not ture brother. i did not point the finger at Bishop Owens sir well you talking about saint going to court. let us look also at him to no one said anything about that. but when Bishop Patterson go to court your mouth come open to talk about his wrong. sir you do not need to be suspect of me sir check your self brother. i no am saved sir.i think you should spend time in the word. and say off the net pastor p. sir
I’ve learned over time that there are so many spirits out there. a lot of time you can tell a strange church by their name. “Garden of Love Holy Church” “Universal Church of Jesus of the Apostle Faith”. Be sure to watch those ones called new and free. “New Day COGIC” “Freewill Pentecost” “Free Pentecost Church of Jesus”. What that usually means is that were not steadfast enough to remain under someone. They are so lead by God till “God” (they say) leads them from the church to do a “New” thing and they receive this “freedom”. Freedom ha. Freedom of disobedience. New ha. New doctrine. Some don’t even call church anymore. “Tribe of Judah Ministry”. With their women pastors and copastors.
They have the audacity to say Pastor Lucinda White and Apostle Richard White to make pretend like their husband is still head over them. Everyone knows the women is leading. She’s the pastor and he’s on her deacon board. I guess he’s the first man lol. HENPECKED men. That’s what went wrong in the beginning. Women took charge and man followed. When man follows that out of order woman, God is not pleased. Juanita Bynum was doing well, but the fame of Hollywood has overtaken her, now that she is remarried (anybody know what the scripture has to say about that) She got on national television and put herself above her husband talking about how she brought him to TBN and tv. and the Lord was gone use him. Talking about how she made him. If she did, that is nothing to say on tv.
OUT OF ORDER WOMEN, they have been trouble from the beginning. Anybody notice that the fall of many great men had to do with women. David, Solomon, Samson, Ahab(though evil but still Jezebel made him worse). Men are supposed to be leaders. but they’ve been led away by these serpent like women. I saw a church van, Pastors Susie and David Jones. Both of them are the pastor. Ha, Anything with two heads is a monster. someone spoke about people easily following women. yeah a lot are, you know, bcuz folks like stuff that is out of order. They don’t want to be under the God-ordained authority of the man. The Scripture says THE HEAD OF WOMAN IS THE MAN. didn’t say husband, wife, nope said the head of woman is man.
I might sound like a woman basher but I’m not I believe a man should love his wife just like Christ loved the church but that the woman should stay in her role and not try to take on the authorities of the man just as man should stay in his place and not try to be Christ himself. (We should try to be more like him but not taking his place is what I mean). No no, You can’t prove women pastors in the scripture. It said help the women who labored in the gospel, that don’t bit more mean she was a preacher, she could have been paul’s assistant when he came to town. The hospitality lady, the usher, the singer. All of that is laboring for the gospel.
And Phoebe’s business doesn’t make her a deacon. Everyone has business. Just bcuz she had business doesn’t mean that it was church business and if it was it still could have been something like food preparation for the Convocation. We don’t know. Give a scripture someone. all i hear is opinion and theory. don’t quote Acts 2, bcuz prophesying and preaching are 2 different things and you all know it. A layman can prophesy, I’ve prophesied before and I’m not a preacher.
I stay away from churches called Free, they scare me.
Don’t reply to me without scripture backing. It doesn’t make sense for God to place man head over woman and then put a woman over the church and for all the men to be under her. Women deacons and bishops. I’d like to see the women who was “husband of one wife ruling her house well” That’s the requirement. Now what business does a woman have ruling her house and she’s under her husband.
Watch all these lil ministries popping up with the strange names. all these folks with a new revelation and understanding. Paul said if anyone come with any other doctrine let him be accursed. So’ll I’ll stick with what I know is right. The Bible rightly divided.
Do you think Bishop Mason would have gone along with Grayson? It’s amazing that there’s so much conflict on this site when it’s clear what scripture says. I guess next someone will be telling me crossdressing is okay. (Women wearing pants, etc. and men wearing dresses, etc.) uh oh. bet I opened a can of worms there that would require a new site to chat about. I know one thing I’ll stick to wearing pants bcuz the scripture says a woman should not wear anything that PERTAINETH to a man, neither should a man but on a woman’s garment,for that person themself is an abomination to the Lord, and I don’t want to be abominable, like these women pastors. Amess.
Dear Minister McCline:
1. Why would a member of the COGIC bring a negative spotlight to another board member just to make a point? Brother please read James 1:5 Two wrongs dont make a right!
2. Maybe your right! I probally should spend more time in the word so I can rightfully divide the word of truth. I’m just a nobody; trying to help somebody; to realize God’s word is for everybody.
Dear Brother Anthony:
I want to ask you a question. Who made the man or woman? God or Satan? Who is cause of sin? God or Satan? Who does God or Satan use to complete their wills in the earth? Man or woman?
God is clear in the Book of Genesis when He says that everything He made ‘IS GOOD.’ You have been taught the most foolish doctrine of devils yet; that is, that a woman is evil and has been so from the beginning.
The commandment says, ‘Honour thy father and thy mother.’ Are you a homosexual? Do you have two fathers or males figures as fathers in your life?
Without the woman, there would not be any other people in this earth. Adam, the male, called her, the female, ‘Eve’ because she was the ‘MOTHER OF ALL LIVING’ (Genesis 3:20). God is the God of the Living (Matthew 22:31,32).
Do you think that God/Christ is pleased with your depiction of women (Matthew 12:31-37; 15:10-20; 18:6; Mark 12:28-34). Jesus was born of a ‘VIRGIN WOMAN’ not a man (Luke 1:28-31). Your grandmother, mother, sister, aunt, niece, and wife or girlfriend is a woman or female unless you are a homosexual (not intended to offend you, but clarify my point).
Why would you even think to say something like that unless you are so ignorant of God Himself and the Lord Christ Jesus that we, male and female, have been made in Their image (Genesis 1:26-28).
Maybe you hate woman because you don’t have a woman that God has made and brought to you to be your wife? Maybe you have an issue of sin such as adultery, fornication or lust? Or maybe you feel powerless around them?
I don’t know what your problem is, but I do understand that God will allow you to suffer for speaking against His anointed (1 Chronicles 16:22; Psalms 105:15). Woman are anointed by God Himself and the Lord Jesus to do His Will in this earth whether that is teaching the daughters and sons to honor and respect God, the Lord, the Holy Ghost, their parents, themselves, and others.
Let me teach a little of God’s Word regarding woman and their authority. God gave the commandment to Moses, a man/prophet, for His people, Israel, to honor their father and mother (Exodus 20:12). Solomon wrote in the Book of Proverbs, which tells and teaches us to get God’s Wisdom and Understanding above everything else, that a wise son makes a glad father, but a foolish or unwise son is the heaviness of his mother (Proverbs 10:1). He also said, ‘My son, keep your father’s commandment, and forsake not the law of your mother’ (Proverbs 6:20). God said in Joel 2:29, ‘I will pour out my spirit on all flesh; and your sons and DAUGHTERS shall prophesy…I don’t know what you think the word ‘prophesy’ means, but I can tell you. It means to speak or communicate, instruct or guide by divine inspiration as God’s Word is given to us (Acts 2:14-21 and 21:9 also). If God used a prophet or man to tell you as a man that He will have women speaking on His behalf in the last days, which we are living, then who do you think you are to make such comments without being brought under the wrath and judgment of God Himself. Furthermore, let’s not forget what the the New Testament Angel of the Lord told Mary who carried Jesus that she was “BLESSED AMONG WOMEN and HIGHLY FAVORED” (Luke 1:28-31). God did not make any praise like this or a better statement about any man in the Holy Bible except the Lord Christ Jesus Himself.
Brother, you need deliverance from this evil spirit to speak such evil of woman as if it is their fault that sin is in the earth. Jesus came to defeat the devil and the power he had through sin not women or men for that matter. Align your mind with God’s Word. Go back and read Genesis 1:26-28, God blessed the woman (females) along with the men (males) to have dominion over the fish, birds, and everything the creeps on the earth not each other. In addition, Jesus said that we will be like the angels in heaven who are neither male nor female in the resurrection (Matthew 19:3-12 and 22:23-33). Furthermore, if you think being a woman is evil, then must not part of the church, which is the body of Christ and His bride that He will rapture upon His return.
Finally, if God doesn’t have a problem with His creation of women and their leading His people, then why do you?
Feel free to express you full view.
Peace
Dear Brother Anthony:
I have met some people like you who do not have a formal education and do not rightly divide God’s Word. Rightly divide? Do you know what this means? This means to classify or make (clear) distinct. It appears that you aren’t able to classify (to put into perspective) what is said in the Holy Bible.
TEST: ‘A woman should not wear anything pertaining to a man. What is the perspective, view or relative importance that God is signifying in Deuteronomy 22:5? What does this scripture mean? Do you suppose that men wore boxer shorts or briefs and women wore bikinis? Or that man wore pants and women wore dresses?
ANSWER: God is teaching in scripture not about clothes per se, but duties or jobs. Women as well as men were slaves, worked in the fields, but they did not both fight in wars. Because of the differences in their physical natures, women were not allowed to do things that were considered extremely dangerous. Read from the Old through the New Testament whether women went to battle or not.
EXAMPLE: Moses’ wife, Zipporah, and her sisters were all shepherds, but Moses fought the other man that attacked them (Exodus 2:16,17).
TEST: ‘Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence’ (1 Timothy 2:11,12). What does this scripture mean? Do you think that the woman could not speak God’s Word at all even to her own husband if necessary?
ANSWER: The word ‘silence’ is defined as ‘to not criticize,’ but, instead, they are to exercise extreme humility. Women had to learn not to expose the weaknesses of their husbands when they erred from God’s Word because they needed to maintain unity in their marriage. God made them one from the beginning as the Lord Jesus taught (Matthew 19: 4-6). Any man today will tell you that he does not like looking like a fool or not knowing what he is doing in front of his wife or anyone else for that matter. A wife/woman had to display a grave amount of humility because of such a prideful husband/man. The word ‘usurp’ means ‘to seize and hold by force without right’. Although, the wife may understand God’s Word clearly and rightly divide it, she cannot walk in it without him. She must walk in humility with her husband as equal and not go beyond him in the marriage as Eve did with Adam. Likewise, the husband cannot go beyond the wife in a marriage as well. This explanation agrees with the following scripture Paul writes (1 Timothy 2:13-15). This is consistent with Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 19:4-6.
POINT: A woman can teach a man. If she has a son, she is required by God to train him up in the way he should go (Proverbs 22:6). However, a wife must walk in humility with her husband and they will learn and live God’s Word as one. As pertaining to pastor, there is not scripture that says only men are pastors. Paul wrote a letter or epistle to Timothy, not the church, about anyone desiring to be a bishop, which some translate as pastor. A bishop is a superintendent not a feeder of sheep, which the word ‘pastor’ translates into as well as minister and servant. He was giving his advice or counsel to Timothy because of his youth. In addition, Timothy did not have the wisdom of handling false teachings/doctrine or false teachers that contradicted and denied what he taught.
So to suggest or infer that women are and cannot be pastors is not scriptural or biblical in any sense. Furthermore, a house divided against it cannot stand (Matthew 12:22-37). We will be judged for our blasphemy of God’s divine inspiration in the lives of our brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.
FINAL NOTE: Preaching is ‘to teach, inform, proclaim or tell of the good news of the gospel of Christ Jesus.’ Prophesying is ‘to divine or foretell God’s Will and Purpose through divine inspiration or the Holy Ghost’. In accordance with Joel 2:28-32 and Acts 2:14-36; 21:8, 9, ‘your sons and your daughters shall prophesy.’ Therefore, pastors have to be able to preach, inform, or teach the good news of Christ Jesus for the wo/men to be saved, which is the commission Lord Jesus gave before His ascension (Matthew 28:19,20; Mark 16:15-20; and Romans 10:8-15).
To Mr or Mrs. M
Not sure if you’re male or female.
You say that he wasn’t talking about clothes persay but last I checked wearing garments had reference to clothing. I did not mean to imply that all women are evil. Of course not. There are evil men and women and good men and women. I said, when man follows that out of order woman it is trouble. In the same token, an out of order man is just as much if not more trouble. Following men and women who are out of order is detrimental. I focused on women because that was the topic of the site. I do not hate women. I love everyone, especially holy, god-fearing, word abiding women. I do not believe it is woman’s fault sin is in the earth. It is Adam’s. He disobeyed God. My point was he was following an “out of order” woman. I have not been taught that woman was evil but that she is the weaker vessel and that she is to submit to the authority of the man. It does not make since for God to place a husband over her and then place her head over his church and he is on her deacon board. If someone is out of order, it would be her job to be correcting and openly rebuking men. That looks like usurption to me. I believe that women have an active place in the church. They just shouldn’t be the head. the bishops, elders, and deacons are to be HUSBANDS of one wife ruling their house well. Again a woman should not be ruling her house, her husband should. It doesn’t even look right for a woman to be sitting in the pulpit and men are sitting to her left and right. And what if she’s pregnant, sitting up top over the people. She should not be head over men because “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” not the head of the wife is the husband, which is also true, but it says the head of the woman is the man. And by the way I do have a formal education. I was valedictorian of my high school graduating class. You know you really should be more careful before making accusations of evil spirits and doctrine of devils, and remember that you only understand part of what’s said online. you cannot completely tell the tone of the statement and you also don’t know everything a person believes by reading a statement on this site.
Hello: Saints
I’m aware this site for us to have mature conversation…. BUT SAINTS….WE’VE GONE TO FAR…WE REALLY NEED TO HELP ONE ANOTHER, FOR THERE’S AREAL WAR GOING ON AND IT’S CALLED SIN!!!!!!!!!!! BUT IF WE AS THE BODY OF CHRIST ARE SO BUSY FIGHTING OVER A WOMEN PASTORS; THE SATAN OF THIS WORD HAS TIME TO MOVE IN SOME WHERE ELSE…. THE BOOK SAID THAT A HOUSE THAT IS TORN BETWEEN EACH HOUSEHOLD MEMBER CANNOT STAND….. FOR THE BIBLE ALSO SAIDHOW CAN TWO WALK TOGATHER UNLESS THEY AGREE.. WE NEED TO 4 GET OUR DIFFERENCES AND DO WHAT THE BIBLE SAID….REASON AS ONE,OR TOGATHER… GOD HELP US IS MY PRAYER FOR ALL THE SAINTS EVERYWHERE
Dear Brother Anthony:
You are quoting scriptures, but are not being wise in rightly dividing God’s Word.
First, formal education is college such as an associate, bachelor, masters or doctorate degree. A high school diploma is considered informal and/or secondary education, which are grades 9-12. It is above elementary education, which are grades K-8.
Second, it does not matter what the tone of the statement is because when written it is not heard verbally, but rather read. Moreover, it does not matter how a person says something only the fact that the person did say it.
Third, Deuteronomy 22:1-12 is talking about outside labor and coming across things that belong to your neighbor. Verse 5 speaks of a woman and a man being commanded not to exchange their work clothes with each other because God hates it. It is clear that a woman should not work physical hard labor on the outside of the home while a man does light work on the inside of the home. Please explain how you deduct or determine homosexuality or a woman out of order there because of the use of the word GARMENT. I find this extremely amusing because no intelligent person would have concluded this.
Fourth, Eve was not a woman out of order. The serpent or Satan deceived her, which God acknowledged and respectively punished them. However, Adam was disobedient to the commandment of God as pointed out in scripture (Genesis 3:9-11). God did not put Adam’s fault on Eve or on woman and neither should you.
Fifth, God neither the Lord Jesus has ever referred to the woman as the WEAKER VESSEL. Peter wrote and advised these disobedient men to be good Christian husbands to their wives while explaining to them they will hinder their prayers if they chose and continued to disobey God’s Word (1 Peter 3:1-7).
Sixth, the word HEAD used in 1 Corinthians 11:3 and Ephesians 5:23 only signifies the order of all things as it relates to God. God is and was in the beginning (Genesis 1:1, John 1:1); Christ is God the Word made flesh that is and was in the beginning (John 1:1-3,14); man and woman are male and female that God created in His image of God He said ‘Let US make man in our own image and after our likeness’ when constructing the heavens and the earth; the US used refers to the Father, Word or Christ Jesus, and the Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:26-28; 1 John 5:7).
Seventh, Paul spoke to Timothy by the Holy Spirit ‘that in the last days some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils’ (1 Timothy 4:1). I use the phrase ‘doctrines of devils’ to emphasis the point that there are some of people who have been deceived by Satan and are ignorant. No one wants to admit they are wrong or ignorant for that matter, but some people are when it comes to God’s Word (Hosea 4:6). Therefore, they say and make ungodly, unwise, foolish, and even uneducated statements about others as it relates to life and God’s Word.
Finally, if you choose to remain ignorant after being advised, instructed, and corrected in a godly, wise, and intelligently manner of a woman’s place of authority in and by God in order to follow what some man who needed salvation and redemption of his sins from this same God that made the woman and the man, then my brother it pleases me to say to you HAVE AT IT (Mark 11:23). Moreover, Jesus taught about the consequences of your actions (Matthew 5:17-20).
Dear Brother Anthony:
You are quoting scriptures, but are not being wise in rightly dividing God’s Word.
First, formal education is college such as an associate, bachelor, masters or doctorate degree. A high school diploma is considered informal and/or secondary education, which are grades 9-12. It is above elementary education, which are grades K-8.
Second, it does not matter what the tone of the statement is because when written it is not heard verbally, but rather read. Moreover, it does not matter how a person says something only the fact that the person did say it.
Third, Deuteronomy 22:1-12 is talking about outside labor and coming across things that belong to your neighbor. Verse 5 speaks of a woman and a man being commanded not to exchange their work clothes with each other because God hates it. It is clear that a woman should not work physical hard labor on the outside of the home while a man does light work on the inside of the home. Please explain how you deduct or determine homosexuality or a woman out of order there because of the use of the word GARMENT. I find this extremely amusing because no intelligent person would have concluded this.
Fourth, Eve was not a woman out of order. The serpent or Satan deceived her, which God acknowledged and respectively punished them. However, Adam was disobedient to the commandment of God as pointed out in scripture (Genesis 3:9-11). God did not put Adam’s fault on Eve or on woman and neither should you.
Fifth, God neither the Lord Jesus has ever referred to the woman as the WEAKER VESSEL. Peter wrote and advised these disobedient men to be good Christian husbands to their wives while explaining to them they will hinder their prayers if they chose and continued to disobey God’s Word (1 Peter 3:1-7).
Sixth, the word HEAD used in 1 Corinthians 11:3 and Ephesians 5:23 only signifies the order of all things as it relates to God. God is and was in the beginning (Genesis 1:1, John 1:1); Christ is God the Word made flesh that is and was in the beginning (John 1:1-3,14); man and woman are male and female that God created in His image of God He said ‘Let US make man in our own image and after our likeness’ when constructing the heavens and the earth; the US used refers to the Father, Word or Christ Jesus, and the Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:26-28; 1 John 5:7).
Seventh, Paul spoke to Timothy by the Holy Spirit ‘that in the last days some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils’ (1 Timothy 4:1). I use the phrase ‘doctrines of devils’ to emphasis the point that there are some of people who have been deceived by Satan and are ignorant. No one wants to admit they are wrong or ignorant for that matter, but some people are when it comes to God’s Word (Hosea 4:6). Therefore, they say and make ungodly, unwise, foolish, and even uneducated statements about others as it relates to life and God’s Word.
Finally, if you choose to remain ignorant after being advised, instructed, and corrected in a godly, wise, and intelligently manner of a woman’s place of authority in and by God in order to follow what some man who needed salvation and redemption of his sins from this same God that made the woman and the man, then my brother it pleases me to say to you HAVE AT IT (Mark 11:23). Moreover, Jesus taught about the consequences of your actions (Matthew 5:17-20).
Pastor M and Elenora share the same email address occasionally. Please don’t confuse. Pastor M can be reached at pmdent@msn.com.
Saints:
I want to end my commentary on this matter by saying the following:
God is the creator and judge of us all. He is the true, living God. He has sent His only begotten Son to redeem us from sin in every way it manifests. As Brother Eric said, we don’t have time to dispute about some man’s opinion of whether a woman could pastor or feed God’s people His Word or not. This is foolish. Anyone who does not believe a woman could should be satisfied in their believing. People who argue what they believe are not confident in their belief and not acceptance in order to move forward in their daily affairs.
God sent His only begotten Son. If you choose not to accept him, God will just allow His wrath to come upon you. He does not make a big fuss out of your not accepting His Son as the way of salvation (John 3:16-18). NO. Therefore, we should not waste our precious time arguing with people about the truth. We preach it and move on. If accept, we praise God. But if reject, we dust our feet off as a testimony against that person or those people (Matthew 10:5-15). Jesus said that His sheep know or recognize His voice and a stranger they will not follow (John 10:1-5; 7-18; and 24-30). If you don’t follow or recognize the truth when you hear it and choose to holdfast to a stranger’s voice, then God’s wrath will come upon you. BOTTOMLINE.
Can a woman feed or teach God’s people? YES. Can the devil deceive God’s people? NO. Therefore, anyone deceived in thinking that God would not use a woman to teach or instruct in His Word is the devil’s children. This may offend some, but it is true. We as believers are commanded by Christ Jesus to not be deceived by the devil as Adam and Eve, which brought upon them God’s wrath, to wit, being thrown out of the garden. This is only possible when we continue in His Word and are set free by only Him (John 8:12, 23-24, 31-47).
You can continue to debate this issue and put yourself in the position for God’s wrath to come upon you, but I am wise and will avoid danger when I see it (Proverbs 1:7; 9:8; 14:15; 19:25; 21:11).
Pray for one another to not be deceived so that they will return with us when our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus comes again.
PEACE, LOVE, AND PROSPERITY TO THE ALL THE SAINTS.
To be; or not to be!
I think we have a great vastness of interpretation on this subject. And because God is not the author of confusion, I feel led to respond.
A. The bible is interpreted four ways: (1) literally (2) spiritually (3)metaphorically or symbolically (4) dispensationally
1. literally – word for word; it means just what it is saying
EX: Deuteronomy 5:17 Thou shalt not kill. It means just that
2. Spiritually – Godly or Heavenly revelation; pertaining to the spirit world
EX: John 11:11 Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may
awake him out of sleep.
John 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought
that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
EX: John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have
no life in you. If you interpret this literally it mean that Jesus was
teaching cannibalism( A person who eats the flesh of other humans)
We know he was talking about the BREAD and WINE we partake during
Communion or the Holy Eucharist
3. symbolically or metaphorically – A figure of speech in which a word or
phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate
another
EX: Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world.
Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
4. dispensation – an administration or stewardship role of man during a probational period in which God deals mankind to test his faithfulness and loyalty. Man is given the responsibility to administer the delegated affairs of God. There are seven dispensations of man INNOCENSE; CONSCIENCE; HUMAN GOVT.; PROMISE; LAW; GRACE; DIVINE GOVT. When interpreting the bible you must remember what allowed under one dispensation may not be allowed under another.
EX: Genesis 31:17 Then Jacob rose up, and set his sons and his wives upon camels;
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
well thank for Jesus who bless the saint at 98 holy convocation. the Bishop GE Patterson laid the foundation which is the word of God he did preach. thank God for him. the lord moved on me and the saints. Bishop Patterson look much better as he preach the word. now i will say this chirst is the head of the church and the man is the head of the women. yes God use women to preach his word but their is a big difference in preaching and being a pastor saint. the bible say all scripture are insprire by GOD him self. so yes stop the fighting over women pastor and yes win soul for christ jesus. he is coming back for a holy people only that bible fact
What happened at the Elder Council meeting. How did Hutchins Fair?
For those of you that do not know, Bishop Patterson is trying to do away with the Elders’ Council.
Pastor P. give it up move on to soul winning man. did you go to memphis to be blessed by God or just to talk about what someone did. i no you were shock when Bishop walk in mason temple in the power of God. and all the devils were shock with you man move on.you need to get in the word so you can feed God’s people man the word. Bishop was telling the people that it was not that way when Bishop mason had. sir you need help man you just can not let go man you are bound man get jesus in your life sir. the saint are praying for Bishop it is in God’s hand.
My Brother: It always a pleasure to converse with you! Once again you have those blinders on. ” Bishop was telling the people that it was not that way when Bishop mason had” Before I enlighten you again let me straighten one thing out with you. It’s not personal, It’s God’s Business! But I think it is a shame when a leader wants to do away with a whole entity of the church to remove one man. Thats just like shooting down a plane to destroy one passenger.
Remember before he left the church he started an organization called “COGIC Pastor”. In the by-laws it is stated that his desire was to CURB the POWER of the RULING AUTHORITY! At that time he want to take the power of the Presiding Bishop(Bishop J.O. Patterson. Now that he is the Presiding Bishop he wants to curb the power of the PEOPLE! YOUR EMOTION ARE MOVED BY WHAT YOU HEAR. YOU WATCH WHAT A PERSON DOES, NOT JUST WHAT THEY SAY. One time – they say it is a MISTAKE; Twice – they say it is a PROBLEM; Three times – it is a PATTERN of that person’s demeanor!
P.S. To God be the Glory for his testimony of Healing!
SO HOW DID IT TURN OUT?DID THEY DESTROY THE PASTORS AND ELDERS COUNCIL AT THE 98TH CONVOCATION?
Wow!! The Bible says that we are to be known by our love. It looks like Satan is working on this message board. James says that we are to be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to wrath. This message board sounds like the Church of Corinth. I hope that no prospective sinners are viewing this page for their sakes. There is a way to address a controversy, and that is usually in the spirit of meekness. We are not supposed to slander (the Bible says that) neither are we supposed to debate strifefully (read the Pauline epistles). Surely this forum is not following peace with all men, neither is it following after holiness (remember what Peter, or rather the epistle that claims the authority of Peter says). Saints, this discussion board is not saintly. You all have talked alot about the Bible, but one of the rudimentary points in it is that people are to know us by our friuts and our love (read the Gospel of John). I have been taught–without the explicit presence of a human– ( I am a young nineteen year old minister) that, we, especially as Christians, are to appraoch one another with an understanding spirit. We are to understand that by grace we are saved, and that this grace often aids people where they are–they needn’t be “perfect” for grace to reach them. Thus, we ought not be so apt to criticize our leaders in Christ neither our brothers and sisters. We should always try to look at things from all sides and then to consider whether it’s right or wrong. Understanding, love, and the Holy Ghost are ideal virtues to possess when promoting good human relationships and communication. Let us love one another and have our conversation (lifestyle) to be beyond reproach. Who are we to judge another man’s servant. To his own master he standeth or falleth.
Be ye angry and sin not. Let not the sun go down on your wrath.
Young Minister
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church, and he is the Savior of the body,
Brothers and Sisters, my point to this scripture in Ephesians: God make no mistake. How could God put man the head of his house, and turn around allow a Woman to be in a minstry over Men. What is wrong with this picture. To me Women in Ministry is calling God a lie. Women if God didn’t think we were in position to be over our house hold, do you really think he would put us in position to be in the Ministry. Don’t get me wrong. Women do have Minisry, Missionary, Evangilist. I do beleive we have our place. As men have their places and that is to be over women.
Blame Eve for that mistake, women. That was our punishment for Eve being disobedient.
One more thought. God is the same yesterday as he is today. NO NEW THING, Nothing in the word say: God is the same today, and will change in the future.
My advise to all us women that are Saved, wait, do your missionary work, stop going ahead men. When you do, you are going ahead God. May God bless us all.
Dear Ms. J. Carroll
You Said,
“NO NEW THING, Nothing in the word say: God is the same today, and will change in the future.”
I am not disputing you, but
Isaiah 43:19 Behold, I will do a NEW THING; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
Jeremiah 31:22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a NEW THING in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.
Ezekiel 18:1-4 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Ye SHALL NOThave occasion ANY MORE to use this proverb in Israel. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Sound like God change his mind to me!
Hello Saints:
I am amazed at how everyone wants to put theirs opinions, interpretations, comments, and supposed knowledge of GOD’S WORD on this bulletion board and in the process is so divided, which does not represent anything that is of GOD.
Let’s understand something about the HOLY BIBLE. Every prophet, priest, king, and/or apostle did not OBEY God in everything. There are some instances recorded in the HOLY BIBLE that shows us just how man really is in his/her heart.
Adam and Eve disobeyed God. Cain killed his brother, Abel. Cain’s great grandson, Nimrod, tried to build a tower to reach heaven to which God scattered the people and gave them different tongues. The sons of God slept with the beautiful women that were unbelievers and defiled themselves. Lot chose to live within twin perverted cities, Sodom and Gomorrah, which God destroyed with fire. The people did not believe Noah when he preached that it would rain as God’s judgment, neither did they get into the ark and only Noah’s family lived. Abraham slept with Hagar and had a son, Ishmael, out of wedlock while waiting for the promised one, Isaac, with Sarah as God spoke to him. Jacob’s mother, Rebekah, caused him to deceive his father, Isaac, into blessing him and not his older brother, Esau because his mother favored him. Jacob’s sons sold the brother Joseph into slavery whereby he later became the prince of Egypt and save the land, the surrounding countries, and the entire tribe of Israel. This is written in the book of Genesis, which signifies the beginning.
In the beginning, God made everything good. However, man (male/female) have messed everything up. Not because we wanted to, but because Satan has tricked and deceived us into doing so.
POINT: There is only one test of God that no demon, devil or Satan himself can refute. That is, does God truly get the glory whenever we do, say, or go anywhere in His name. Many of you are on this bulletion board out of pride, arrogance, and high-mindedness. You want to be heard for your position, but disguise it as God’s position. God never said anywhere in the HOLY BIBLE from Genesis to Revelations that a women could not preach, teach, pray, or prophesy. Many things have be done by the people that I have mentioned that were wrong in the eyes of God. However, God chose to use them for His glory not their glory (St. John 15:7-10, 15) and definitely not based on someone else’s opinion of them. Let’s not take what Paul said out of context. Christ Jesus died on the cross, not Apostle Paul. Christ Jesus rose from the dead. Not Apostle Paul. Lord Jesus sits at the right hand of God. Not Apostle Paul. Lord Jesus gave the commandment to go into the world or nations and make disciples of all that believe and baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. Not Apostle Paul. (St. Matthew 28:16-20; St. Mark 16:14-20). Peter, a disciple and an Apostle of Christ and the Lord Jesus in the New Testament, spoke by the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:1-36) and prophesied again what God spoke through the Prophet Joel (Joel 2:28-32) in the Old Testament, that He will prophesy in the last days through your sons and daughters. The prophets in the Old Testament did not preach or teach; they prophesied. Therefore, God used the prophets in the beginning and He will use the prophets/prophetess in the end to speak to His people. You really don’t have to listen to whomever He choses to use. However, to say that God will not use a women in this manner is the same as saying that we are not in the last days or that God lied. The HOLY BIBLE teaches that GOD CANNOT AND WILL NOT LIE. He even commands that WE DO NOT LIE (Exodus 20:16; Proverbs 6:16-19). Moreover, John spoke by the Holy Ghost that if we take away from the prophesy he wrote, then God/Lord will take away his part out of the book of life or if he were to add on to the prophesy God gave him, then God will add the plagues that are written in the book to him/her.
The biggest problem I see among believers is not respect or fear of God. We say and do whatever we think is right in our own eyes and have no regrets about it. Some of us refer to it as truth or tough love. I call it what it is, ignorance. Ignorant people are the biggest problems in the church. They will keep the church in a box if you let them. They are ones telling what you can and cannot do. They forget that it is the HOLY SPIRIT that will teach you (St. John 14:15-18; 25-26; 15:26-27; 16:5-15). They will let another person become their god and worship every word that individual says. They will even fight for that person all the while breaking the very commandments that God and Christ has instructed them to keep.
I APPEAL TO EVERY WOMAN, MAN, OR CHILD reading this bulletin board. DO NOT BE DECEIVED by the tricks of satan to have you fighting one another over debates of the power of God. WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. Does it need to written for you to believe that GOD CAN DO IT. Stop wasting your time over foolishness. GO INTO THE WORLD AND MAKE DISCIPLES OF ALL NATIONS. What will you have to say when you answer to God or Christ? By the way Lord, I made sure that understood that you did not call a woman to preach, teach, pray or prophesy. Do you think He will say, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant.’ I don’t think so. HE WILL REMIND YOU OF WHAT HE COMMANDED YOU TO DO and that is to GO AND MAKE DISCIPLES OF ALL NATIONS BAPTIZING THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY GHOST. Stop wasting your time and keep you opinions to yourself. Get about God’s business to bring glory, honor, and praise to Him and His Kingdom.
PEACE
HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL!
The hardest job Apostle Paul had was to keep the New Testament church of his day from going back to old traditions. He called them Foolish in Glatia and bewhiched into believing that they could get saved by New Testament Grace and yet needed some Old Testament Teaching to keep them saved.
The few that are still against women ordinations are simply afraid to accept the complete work of Grace through Jesus Christ.They protect church protocol at the expence of truth.
How do you justify God’s own reference of himself as the “Many Breasted One”. Or Paul saying to desire the sincere milk of the Word? Where does that milk come from? Who’s breast? The Bishop? Pastor? Who brings the word? Does that make them spiritual women? Are we all not the bride of Christ? Only in the Spirit! Blacks were never slaves in the Spirit; however, the scars and racisim against the Black population today is a grim reminder that they indeed were slaves. The church of that day did not recognize Black Bishops, does that mean God did not call Black Bishops? The Devil is a liar! This is legalism and it is diabolic and should not be defended!
Legalist twist the scriptures to protect their “pet” doctrines and the fallout is enormous! Legalist will justify their sin and use scriptures to do it. GE Patterson justified taking his brother to court.(even if a brother becomes disagreeable it doesn’t change who his Father was; so he is still a brother)
The same bible that he uses to defend his stance on women ordinations plainly says, “do not take your brother to court” but legalist feel that they are justified because they are “fighting for truth” although they are in direct rebellion of the scriptures.
LISTEN AND BE WARNED
This twisting or manipulating of the scriptures results in a perverting of truth;perversion when it comes to light creates scandal.
Remember, we are spirit, soul, & body, these seeds of perversion will manifest in three ways. 1. Spiritually one will teach one thing and do another.(Patterson can take his brother to court, but you can’t)
2. Soul: Mind will and emotion, When the soul show signs of perversion it manifest as a vexation of the soul. Undue stress and mind games. (this often results in terminal illness) 3.When seeds of perversion manifest in the body it is sexual perversions. Congregations who submit to leaders who twist (pervert) the scripture often are victims of these three manifestations.
These congregations often have high recorded incidents of Adultry, Fornication, Homosexuality, Pornography, etc. as a direct result of submitting and supporting even the slightest twisting of truth.
Legalism is not funny, it is dangerous and you should leave your coat fleeing from such teachings that would exclude women from the spiritual priesthood.
There is not an angel assigned to check your anatomy to see where you fit in the kingdom of God! Your color cannot stop you, your gender cannot stop you, your economic status cannot stop you, we have a better covenant!
It is all inclusive, I don’t have to kill goats anymore, and women don’t have to take a second seat in the spiritual priesthood!
Apostle MIchael Lee
President/ GBN
While do not feel it neccesary for all to receive formal education. I think if our church like the AME church were to not only mandate that its licensed and ordained elders go to seminary not just this new run of the mill C.H Mason chain of bible schools were any dummy can get a doctorate, Men would be much more reasonable because of their education. You see uneducated men/women have to hold on to their traditons its all they have, they no real understanding of scripture just what someone taught them, without having more than a sunday morning, wendsday night, friday night exposure to scriptures it is impossible to discern the diffference between the truth and traditions. I think all credential holders should receive formal training in the some credable biblical institution, is this not what the bible commands STUDY TO SHOW THY SELF APPROVED, HOW HARD IS IT TO DO A JOB THAT YOU HAVE NOT BEEN TRAINED FOR. I understand the divine enablement but we must all understand that this is only the first step. Furthermore if we did this Cogic we would’nt have Minister Mccline’s can you imagine him Pastoring somebody they would be worse of than him.
so….how did hutchins and the pastors and elders council cme out at the
covocation this year?DO THEY STILL EXIST?
Apostle Lee
please excuse my ignorance, but what does the acronym GBN stand for?
GBN is the acronym for Global Broadcasting Network, Inc. A Christian television network based out of Florida & Nashville TN. Feel free to check out our site at “www.goministry.com(Global Outreach Ministry Network)”:http://www.goministry.com.
I happened across this board and was taken back that such a powerful organization was still bound by the cluthes of legalism. My interest was peaked because, by the help of God, I just completed a book entitled “Life after legalism” where I cover this subject, and uncover some surprising places where legalism still thrives.
My heart truly goes out to people like Minister McCline who obviously believes he is doing the Lord’s work just like those who were behind the crucifixion of Jesus.
Even like Saul, who had to be crushed into submission in order to find eternal live.The God that those men, like Saul, had served all of their life, had convinced them that he NEVER changes, and yet he personally delivered them a NEW covenant, New laws, and the legalist of that day just did not want to accept change. The New covenant has never restricted women from Spiritual priesthood, are not we all Kings and Priest? The sad fact is, the very institution that should be preaching Freedom in Jesus, is still worried over their little petty tradition. Teaching for doctrines the traditions of men.
Any way God’s Love and Merry Christmas to ALL of you and may the unity of Christ prevail in the end!
Apostle Lee
The eximious posts of Pastor P. and Apostle Lee on these matters truly warm my heart. The reasuring evidence that their are still men and women of God who stand and tell the truth is great and greatly to praised. May we all come to true obedience of God’s command through his Vessel Bishop C.H. Mason ” LET THE CHURCH SAY YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSS, YEEEEEEESSSSSS, YEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS”, .
Yes, it is true that man is the covering or head of woman. And yes, God is the covering of man. However, a husband and wife can both be pastors and still follow the correct order. If this is upsetting because men feel women are leading their husbands? What if the man is not called to preach and she is? At one time men in churches were a dime a dozen. Someone was called. Instead of all of this debate, seek the source. Ask the Lord in prayer. Also, a women pastor is doing her job for the Lord, just like she would if she was President of a company. Regardless of her position at work, her husband is still her covering. As long as your individual families are following that, pray that others will also. We are here to love, edify and pray for one another. Jesus never said speak harshly against your brother or sister if you disagree.
To: Pastor P
Seems like you have all the answer. Well can you answer this? I can see clearly that you aren’t rightly dividing the word of God. Some of the things you say or true and some of them, I just can’t believe a pastor would say. Seems like you are provoking arguements with some people. Is that right or wrong? Seems like you are taking sides between bishop Grayson and Bishop Patterson. Should you be taking there sides or God’s side. If religion is personal should you believe in what you believe and not what Patterson or Grayson believe? Should you even be posting messages on here, or should you be praying and asking God to rightly divide the truth between these two individuals? We dont know percisely what is right as for women preacher. Yes God does use women to Teach, not ” PREACH the word of God. A woman’s role is missionary, evangelist, or mother of the church. Not BISHOP. A man’s role is deacon, minister, pastor, superintendant, or bishop, NOT missionary, ir evangelist. Please read the bible thoroughly and in spirit. Don’ t believe what the world believes, because when it all sums up we have to stand and see God for ourselves. Another thing if you knew so much, wouldn’t it be right for you to say that you would pray for these individuals and not be entertaining the beliefs of others. When you get the chance to answer these questions, dont try to be so secuilar and optimistic. Just answer the question and dont try to be so sarcastic because I just want to know if your living up to the title of PASTOR.
Pastor P:
Brother, you are something else! If we trace every comment made by you, one would believe that you were taking a side and it wasn’t God’s. How could ask any questions to anyone posting comments to not believe what either bishop believes, but to believe God’s word and “read it carefully” when your belief of what God’s word is contradicting to what God said, especially, about women.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Paul is not God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit. Paul does not set the rules for the church only God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these three act as one (I John 5:7). Furthermore, we are not subject to any man’s opinion, interpretation, or understanding of the God’s word because we have the Holy Spirit as our teacher and remainder of what God actually said through Christ Jesus (John 14:26). Therefore, your argument that God would not ordain a women to pastor or lead his people other than being a missionary or evangelist is a LIE. Jesus never called us to be a missionary or an evangelist, but to go and make disciples commanding them to observe all that He, CHRIST HIMSELF, GOD IN THE FLESH, taught us, and not any man (Matthew 28:18-20). Christ Jesus said we who believe on him should do the same works he did (John 14:12-18; Mark 16:16-20). He is a disciple and chosen just like the rest of us. However, it is this same Paul who was before called Saul that causes the church so many problems before his conversion as well as today after his conversion. He wrote to the Ephesians about all these different roles of leadership in the church. The only leadership in the church is God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Paul is not the head of the church just as well as the pastor or bishop or any other man or woman with any title. No scripture (Old Testament writings, Psalms, Proverbs and the Prophets) supports any of Paul’s comments and/or instructions to the church that he gave about women. For example, Paul instructs women to be silent and not speak in the church because it’s in the law (I Corinthians 14:34). There is no law in the Old Testament that says anything to that effect. So, where does he get this? It is his interpretation, understanding, opinion, and/or comments from his mind. Did you read your bible carefully and found this in the law? Our assurance of who we are in Christ and what we can do in Christ while living in this earth until His resurrection of our souls is based on our acceptance through faith of Christ Jesus as the only begotten Son of God, which we bear witness to through God’s born again requirement we must meet (John 3:3, 5, 16-21; I John 5:8-13). In conclusion, it is unimportant to God if I am a pastor, evangelist, prophet, teacher, missionary, minister, deacon, bishop, and apostle, male and/or female or what have you. However, what is important to God is whether or not I am doing His will for my life (Matthew 7:21-23). Jesus commands that there and us to not be deceived will be false teachers in our day like there were false prophets in the older days (Matthew 7:15-20). So when you don’t know God, you don’t know His Word, which means you don’t know anything. God did not ordain the false prophets, but yet they prophesied and some people who said they were of God believed and followed them. Jesus did not ordain these false teachers, but yet some people who say they are of God believes and follows them. Jesus said you would recognize these false teachers because of what He taught you and not because of what some man taught you. Christ Jesus is God in the flesh, Emmanuel, God with us. I cannot afford to miss Heaven because of some man’s understanding, interpretation, opinion, and/or comment about God and about God’s word.
FINALLY: I know you will say that I did not answer any of the questions you asked. But the questions you asked are so unimportant. Instead, I addressed the comments you made. Neither man nor woman placed themselves into the world and either cannot change anything about themselves. Whatever God, as Creator, has designed for each man and woman is what He will hold them accountable. Our problem in this world comes from our consistent efforts to lead ourselves starting in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. We are in the state of life today because these two did not obey God’s word/commandment. So many believers are divorced and remarried because they did not obey God’s commandment. So many believers are single parents because of their disobedience. Brother P, I recommend that you READ YOUR BIBLE CAREFULLY AND OBEY GOD.
I apologize brother, Pastor P. I mistook the last comment as coming from you and was suprised at it. Forgive me for offending you in anyways. However, I am sticking to the comments, which are for Alfonzo Fuselier.
I love all the believers regardless of what they believe because Jesus clearly says that if we teach men to regard any of God’s commandments as least then we will be considered least in the kingdom and vice versa (Matthew 5:17-19). Based on this teaching of Christ Jesus, it is important for us to know the law and keep it faithfully through faith because Christ Jesus did not come to do away with the law. Some of us don’t want to believe or accept this fact, but it is very true because God, Christ Jesus, said it.
Christ Jesus never told women that they could not lead His people or said anything that could be interpreted that way. In the Gospel of Luke 8:1-3, Jesus not only had the twelve disciples with Him as He went preaching and showing the goodness of the kingdom of God, but also certain women. These women did exactly what the disciples did in addition to ministering to Him with their substance. He had no hang ups about women in the ministry. As a matter of fact, He showed himself first to one of His disciples who was a woman upon His resurrection (John 20:11-18).
Remember, believers, God has no respect of persons. God does not prefer the man over the woman. I know some would argue “Then why did He make the man first?” If you read you bibles carefully, the “man” is male and female (Genesis 1:26-27; 5:1-2). He made them in His image and blessed them ( Genesis 1:28; 5:1-2). Therefore, the female is made in the image of God taken from the rib of man (Genesis 2:21-23). God made them for the purpose of procreation of their kind in the earth as husband and wife (Genesis 2:22-25). Therefore, God commands us to keep the Law, which says ‘Honour thy father and thy mother’ (Exodus 20:12). Remember, Christ Jesus did not come to do away with the Law, but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17).
If people want to argue over women pastors and truly believe that this is abominable to God, then listen to this record from the Gospel of Mark 9:33-50, which tells the story of how the disciples as men were arguing about who was great (or in-charge/had the authority) among them. Christ Jesus tells them that they must serve to be great and that anyone serving Him is not against Him. In the Gospel of Luke 22:24-30, He tells them that they shall exercise authority over each other, but rather they should serve one antoher (Mark 10:42-45). So all those men who want women to be servants to them in some form of rank structure that God nor Christ Jesus has created, then those woman will sit to eat and drink with Christ in His kingdom when He reigns.
The only thing the Christ Jesus has given us authority over is Satan, the host of fallen angels with him, and all the havoc they cause (Luke 10:1, 17-20). So stop trying to tell a woman what her place is in the eyes of God, Christ Jesus, and the Holy Spirit because you and no other man has that authority to do it.
Keep yourselves unspotted from this world.
May the Love of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus be with you in your every day lives.
PEACE & JOY
To: Pastor M
My fellow clergy and brother, Let it be know that you have not offended me, but only defended your beliefs. Shaloam!
TO: Alfonzo Fuselier
You remind me of the Media. When they can’t find a story to report, they make up one! You are trying to play me as a choleric person. Hoping that I will flare up and write you some cantankerous response. OK, GET A LIFE!
To: Alfonzo Fuselier
I quote, “I can see clearly that you aren’t rightly dividing the word of God.”
I humbly request that you show me what scripture I did not exeget correctly. If I have made a hermeneutical error please point it out. Please do not respond with your dogma, opinion, ideology, or philosophy. Show me the scripture
To: Pastor
It’s so hard for you to just stop if you read your bible you should already know that what I am saying is true and rightly dividing the word. Maybe it’s just that you are always trying to prove yourself by always answering back. A soft answer turns away wrath. Why don’t you stop with your “dogma” and downgrading. And why don’t you stop and just pray isn’t that what your supposed to do. Is it a fad or trend to always entertain people like me. Do you have other things to do, besides always looking on this website for a comment to you. Your really confusing yourself, because your not confusing me. It’s like you have to constantly please and provide a way out for yourself at all time. Allow God to provide your way out and stop trying to do it yourself. I really look up to any persons who hold a postion within the church. I really admire those who are holding up the blood stain banner. But some of the things I read on hear you really have to question yourself if these people are real about what they say. You know how the going says iff you can’ walk the walk then don’t talk the talk. Seems like everyone can talk the talk, but the comments made on here, their not walking the walk. Devils know the bible just as well as some of the christians. I for a fact know the bible. I don’t have to prove myself in words, I have to prove it in my day to day walk. So Don’t always let your words speak for you, if your a true christian people should see God in Your life period. This is my last comment to you pastor P. I think that your a good man at heart, but just needs to learn to stop being so hard on yourself, and stop trying to fight your won battles, let God do it for you. I still love you as “a brother in christ” I have to love everyone, but I don’t have to like the wrong they do.
Dear brother Alfonzo Fuselier:
You used 359 words in your response to say nothing.
You didn’t use any scripture, only your opinion. I asked you to substantiate your claim (“I can see clearly that you aren’t rightly dividing the word of God.”) Nothing but a bunch of words full of philosophy and ideology.
Also that 1year of psychololgy that you didn’t finish isn’t working. You remind me of Sis Eve. The last time she opened her mouth, she thought it would make her wise, but it showed her foolishness.
Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise,
Please, the next time you cannot answer or respond to a biblical inquiry, dont write or say anything.
Proverbs 13:16 Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.
Dear brother Alfonzo Fuselier:
Since you have all the answers, can you answer this?
Why would Bishop Patterson initiate another legal procedure against Bishop Grayson. I have recieved e-mail that Bishop Patterson is taking Bishop Grayson to court this Tuesday for Contempt! Why doenst your Bishop STOP! The man is sick, why continue to rip the body of Christ apart. Look beyond the name issue and see what the Word of God says. God commanded man to be fruitful, multiply, and replenish. All through the Bible God commanded man to increase. How can a man stop the command of God over a name!
Mark 9:38-41 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and WE FORBAD him, because he FOLLOWETH NOT US. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
From what I gathered from the e-mail this is the issue: Bishop W L Price stepped down from an organization called Church of God in Christ Holiness. Bishop Grayson was made the Presiding Prelate. This organization was in existing in the city of Memphis for over 20 something years. Not until Bishop Grayson became the Presiding Prelate did Patterson go after the organization. Is this thing personal or what? I have also been informed the Bishop Patteson’s leading attorney (Alan Wade) has resigned from the case. I end this with the quote with your words Sir:
I quote “stop trying to fight your won battles, let God do it for you.”
P.S. Maybe you should have your Bishop heed to your advice!
Brother, this is exactly what i’m trying to tell you, how can you dish out something and cant take your own medicine. I think it’ s about time you start taking the medicine that you’re putting out. You finally get the point, but you still are trying to fight back with me. Just like you said, stop trying to fight your own battle, and one that’ already won….
Alfonzo Fuselier:
My God, your discernment is way off. You missed the whole point trying to make a point. You have a bad case of tunnel vision. Since you cannont comprehend on the level that I am speaking, I will come down to your level. First of all the subject is about using the name Church of God in Christ. The main characters are Bishop Patterson and Bishop Grayson. The debate is over the name and what the scriptures declare on this matter. On February 24, 2006 at 2:46 pm out of the blue you submitted a comment addressed to me. In your mind you have convinced yourself that you are so important to me that I spend time waiting to chat with you. The devil is a liar! You should stick to the subject or stay off of the board. I’m sorry that you didn’t get the attention you desired as a child, but this is not about you or me. Try not to focus on yourself, but read the content of each statement before you respond.
My investigative background gives me the impression that You and Minister Eddie McCline are close friends.
Pastor P is the most hellish person on the planet. The devil is laughing at you so hard, cuz he is using you everytime you say something. The devils advocate.
Joel 2:28 say it all
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